This sounds significant and convincing until one measures the distance on a map and discovers an "immensely accurate equality" of a twenty percent difference! WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. How did the Dogon obtain this knowledge? Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? Through the carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity of the Segui ceremonies. Given that the French stayed in their territory for five weeks and had several local guides, it would not be surprising if they shared some astronomical knowledge during that time. According to Robert Temple (The Sirius Mystery), the Dogon had In a response published in Fate magazine, he denied intending that: "I refer, entirely in passing, to the Greek word for siren and its similarity to the word for Sirius, drawing absolutely Using similar techniques other writers have "discovered" dozens of different, often contradictory "ancient secrets" about Atlantis, primitive Christianity, forgotten wisdom, ancient visitors and numerous other things. Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries. Meanwhile the Dogon myths continue to baffle investigators. Griaule himself was aware of the discovery of Sirius B and in the 1920s before he visited the Dogon there were also unconfirmed sightings of Sirius C. The Dogon were well aware of the brightest star in the sky but, as Van Beek learned, they do not call it sigu tolo, as Griaule claimed, but dana tolo. The Symbolism of the Tarot: The Minor Arcana, The Symbolism of the Tarot: The Major Arcana, My Reading with Kristine from Psychic Source Review, Get the best Psychic Reading Ever Best Psychics Ive Reviewed, The Cathars: the struggle for and of a new Church, The Strange Stone Discs of Baian-Kara-Ula, William Blake: What paintings of visions come. Speculation about the Dogon on numerous websites is now mingled with fact, leading to wide misunderstanding among the public about Dogon mythology. Sagan, Carl. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). None were detected, That was not surprising since, judging from the age and energy of the stars in the Sirius system, astronomers believe it is unlikely that any earthlike planets could exist there long enough for life to emerge and develop. A review of the astronomical, cultural, and anthropological sides of this issue might be timely. Ask about whatever you want with our Free Rune Readings! Temple has made very few verifiable assertions about mythology (and The Sirius Mystery is overwhelmingly about ancient myths, not about the Dogons or modern astronomy). Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. Paranormal, ed. Sagan has recounted numerous examples from Arizona and New Guinea -- and other scholars have noted similar instances -- of the rapid assimilation of new stories, songs and lore into the eclectic mythology of Stone Age peoples. Temple's book and the debates that followed its release publicized the existence of the Dogon tribe among many New Age followers and proponents of ancient astronaut theories. Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. The expedition, led by Henri Deslandres, stayed in the field for five weeks, and it is reasonable that during this time many contacts with the locals took place, and that relatively modern astronomical knowledge was then transferred. by Liam McDaid. Since Sirius B is a very dense white dwarf star about the size of Earth, it can only be seen in dark skies with medium-sized telescopes. Unfortunately he neglects to mention other bas-reliefs which show "fish-deer" and "fish-lions" and which consequently suggest that the fish motif was symbolic, not descriptive. Or, Griaule's account may reflect his own interests more than that of (Copyright: R. Ibata (Strasbourg Observatory, ULP) et al., 2MASS, NASA). But even after hundreds of pages of myths and interpretations Temple fails to make a connection between ancient Egypt and the modern Dogons; instead he "assumes" it. This is true, but Sirius has about 25 times the luminosity of the Sun. Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. This is a complicated issue, because several special interest groups each claim the Dogon for their own. Appleby also believes there exists a modern arrogance that cannot countenance the idea that ancient civilisations might have been scientifically superior. I did more searching and found that for the keywords Dogon and Sirius B, almost 1000 websites were listed. Nigel Appleby whose book Hall of the Gods was withdrawn from publication has admitted to being tremendously influenced by Temples Sirius Mystery. The diagram that Temple presents, however, is not the 2000. Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." It's almost certainly a hoax. Zeta Reticuli 2 (with about the same temperature and mass as the Sun) is another candidate. The two anthropologists who first studied the Dogon (Griaule and Deiterlen) conducted their research in the 1930s. Strangely, ancient records explicitly list Sirius as one of six "red stars." "At first glance," Sagan admitted, "the Sirius legend of the Dogon seems And from what star system does the visitor come? To Temple, this proved that "geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the based his account on an interview with one person, Ambara, and an "Robert Temple on three different occasions, by mail and phone, attempted to get support from me and I steadfastly refused," Asimov wrote. This of course would destroy the modern influence explanation totally. Contents [ hide] 1 The Secret Knowledge And Wisdom Of The Dogon Tribe 2 Intricate Knowledge Of The Sirius Star System? York: Random House, 1995). S]V',H79aD>1 Q@d(FOY;"36y0Z{VXEJwOx._tto}#&i|HR-i4 History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. In that case the Dogon (and everyone else) would have had little trouble seeing both stars then. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirius_Mystery. He allegedly found the distances "to be nearly equal to one another" -- although no quantitative definition of "nearly equal" was ever offered. The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. The Dogon beliefs about Jupiter and Saturn sound familiar too. Bullard, Thomas. Classical mythology has been a Rorschach test into which people have projected nearly any notion that appealed to them. Sagan suggests, however, that that civilization was Griaule and Dieterlen's claims, to fit his fantastic story. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. They know about the existence of the star Sirius B, a companion star to the brightest star in our sky, Sirius A. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. Several possibilities exist. Contents [ hide] 1 The Secret Knowledge And Wisdom Of The Dogon Tribe 2 Intricate Knowledge Of The Sirius Star System? Beware of mood swings. terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial. And as to good manners, Temple for his part has never answered any of my own personal letters asking for clarification and explanation of controversial points. Temple has either misinterpreted Dogon beliefs, or distorted E. "Ancient Astronauts," in, McDaid, Liam. Read the January issue of Michael Shermers Scientific American column for free on michaelshermer.com: Kool-Aid Psychology: How optimism trumped realism in the positive-psychology movement. star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational Oberg also says that the Dogon were not an isolated tribe and that a member might have acquired knowledge about Sirius B while abroad and later passed it on to the tribe. ), many debunked issues keep rising from the dead like vampires springing from their tombs. hVt*f+"c2aC-w.EJ|@F[VXLV~oo>l B>xU.9y'nYnZ6aBlc3y&A%M]XME The bad news is that the pseudoscience websites were in seventeen different languages. James and Thorpe understate the problem when they say this is very worrying. Griaule claimed that about 15 per cent of the Dogon tribe possessed this secret knowledge, but Van Beek could find no trace of it in the decade he spent with the Dogon. (2004). (Temple claims missionaries didn't show up until 1949.) MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. The parts that bear at least a superficial resemblance to astronomical facts are most likely trimmings added in this century. Dogon descriptions of Jupiter, Saturn and Sirius remind one of Jonathan Swift's uncanny description of the two undiscovered moons of Mars. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Except that this isnt the original Dogon drawing. One unproven aspect of the reported Dogon knowledge of the Sirius system is the assertion that the Dogon knew of another star in the Sirius system, Emme Ya, or "larger than Sirius B but lighter and dim in magnitude." had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely Why would Europeans feel compelled that they needed to discuss astronomy with such a primitive tribe and why would this transfer of knowledge that only lasted 5 weeks have such an impact on the Dogan people that they would include it in their cultural practices? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. No such nebula is seen. The proof is supplied by (the Odyssey), where Helios is said to possess 7 herds of 50 cows each and 7 herds of 50 sheep, a transparent allegory of the days and nights of the year.") The Sirius Mystery is a book written by Robert K. G. Temple (born Robert Kyle Grenville Temple in 1945) supporting the pseudoscientific[1] ancient astronauts hypothesis that intelligent extraterrestrial beings visited the Earth and made contact with humans in antiquity and prehistoric times. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. Sagan further commented that he was surprised, given the freedom of viewpoint that Fish used, that her map didnt match the Hill map better!4. It is also the home of the brightest star in the night sky, Sirius A. Because Sirius B moves from 8 to 31 AU distance from Sirius A, it is unlikely that planets orbiting Sirius A would have stable orbits. WebAccording to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. Skeptic Jason Colavito counts The Sirius Mystery among the body of works in a tradition of ancient astronaut ideas he believes were ultimately inspired by H. P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos.[13][14]. We need more reliable evidence -- especially theories that can be tested. At least three are farther and at least one of them has rings too. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. stream How is that the Dogan tribe has a culture that combines elements from 3 different ancient traditions "rituals of Judaism, practices of ancient Egypt, and a symbolic cosmology that's closely resembles Buddhism? Cuddle up with someone. Temple's book is indeed extremely long and many other researchers have echoed Asimov's assertion that it is "unreadable." ;WI)hK>U/sW_: v* &73DUI*y|07s^gQ7ni[khi4o2vA[a20?D-C[;,!vgejZE-,I51.cWS,?4#_}dpU4I[, w.Mi>Z@iOa:ia](i}29pit+ K#x>0nzDS%c7iN}%37Y-f 1Yvq'Nm=~-%#bO*O44*4%Aj Wi The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to 139-167. What about Sirius? But it is apparent that Temple was not aware of Van Beeks devastating research. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. Other ancient astronomical records make no mention of Sirius being red. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. 6, "White Many served in the French army in World War I and some of them could have returned years later with colorful embellishments for their native legends. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. The oldest traces of life on Earth go back to about that time. It was very unlikely that the Dogon had learned of this stars existence from Westerners prior to the visit by Griaule and Dieterlen. Read Skeptic on Apple or Android devices, or on PC or Mac via PocketMags.com. Investigating Temples He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. The former study also concluded that while a triple system for Sirius could not be fully eliminated, the probability was low. The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. | 3938 State St., Suite # 101, Santa Barbara, CA, 93105-3114 | 1-805-576-9396. Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive. 1978. no conclusions of any kind." characteristics. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. As Picknett and Prince have been able to show, Temples arguments are often based on erroneous readings of encyclopdia entries and misrepresentations of ancient Egyptian mythology. 11.1. Credulous scholars, like Young and Temple, were taken in and through them a whole generation has swallowed the false mythology of aliens from the Dark Sirius Companion. This article appeared in Fortean Times. They dont have telescopes or other "Lecture 1st On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. "Perhaps (Oberg) is unaware," Temple went on, "that the differential curvature of the earth variously distorts distances shown on maps. This step was taken by others, particularly Temple, in the Sixties and Seventies. Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. Europeans too believed that the "white dwarf' Sirius-B star was the heaviest thing in the universe, although in later years astronomers were to find Is Sirius a Triple Star?, Adams, H. H. 1983. The number "fifty" has great signifance in ancient myths. Fishs map and Hills map look similar only because the lines connecting the stars look the same. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. interesting that the Greek Sirius is Seirios.". According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. By comparison, our own Sun was that old 3.4 billion years ago. One additional disturbing note: That distance has been computed based on a true geodetic oblate spheroid, but even assuming a flat surface would only have introduced an error of a few tenths of one percent at most (Temple obviously didn't know that, or he wouldn't have asserted that measurements even less accurate than that were proof that ancients took Earth's sphericity into account.). Qr*OJhiglNKc}{9GdA Mlt^+nR-Sp-f.y-`Pg##uAQDu&W&HM~IK{%uAM'bRV A\Z.4gAHU*j,H( rPaf@)2j (I must confess I've felt that way about some other people, tool). In the 1930s, when their research was carried out, Sirius B was known to have existed, even though it was only photographed in 1970. The mystery of the ancient "red" Sirius also remains baffling. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. In 1952, Young was one of nine people present during the first contact with the Council, an event initiated by Andrija Puharich, the man who brought Israeli spoonbender Uri Geller to America. The Dogon. The Dogon Revisited by Liam McDaid. Could a remote African people have gained esoteric knowledge about the sky without having telescopes? As James and Thorpe point out, he took star maps along with him on his field trips as a way of prompting his informants to divulge their knowledge of the stars. Although Temple fails to prove its antiquity, the evidence for the recent acquisition of the information is still entirely circumstantial. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. extraterrestrial visitors? by Philip Coppens. Nothing fuels religious extremism more than the belief that one has found the absolute moral truth. James, P., N. Thorpe, and I. J. Thorpe. You dont have to watch too many Fantasy Channel (formerly known as the History Channel) specials on ancient astronauts before youll be told about the primitive African Dogon of Mali and their advanced astronomical knowledge bestowed, of course, by extraterrestrials. If so, I wonder why that passage was ever "worth pointing out" in the book in the first place. Flim-Flam! Noah Brosch explained in his book Sirius Matters that cultural transfer could have taken place between 19th century French astronomers and Dogon tribe members during the observations of the solar eclipse on 16 April 1893. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. Even if you allow for a much higher biological mutation rate on any Sirian planet compared to the Earth, it still isnt enough time. rotation is astronomically possible but whether it is correct or not we cannot yet know. %PDF-1.4 Griaule, Marcel. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. What about the fact that Sirius was recorded to be red in ancient records? this about a star that cannot be seen without telescopes, and he made no Liam McDaid is Astronomy Coordinator and Professor of Astronomy at Sacramento City College. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. This proves that geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the earth as a spherical body in space and projections upon it envisaged as part of the Sirius lore.". African Observers of the Universe: The Sirius Question. In, Ortiz de Montellano, Bernard R. 1996. And finally, even if Sirius B had been a visible red giant a few thousand years ago, how would the Dogon know that Sirius B was still there after it became a white dwarf? (OK, I'll bite--but if such a star is not discovered, Temple has risked no converse conclusions. extremely dense and has a fifty-year orbit. (Copyright Lee Krystek 1998) In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. Dogon to explain their beliefs. It has a mass of 2.35 times the mass of the Sun. sun and the phases of the moon are more pertinent for Dogon reckoning. E. "Ancient Astronauts," in The Encyclopedia of the WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a Encyclopedia Galactica,, Benest, D. and J. L. Duvent. they were not told by beings from the star Sirius.". It seems likely that we will never know for sure. Pseudoarchaeology book by Robert K. G. Temple, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Sirius_Mystery&oldid=1135262588, CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown, Short description is different from Wikidata, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 23 January 2023, at 16:12. But that isn't the only parallel. At the latitude of Egypt, over distances of several hundred kilometers, planetary curvature introduces distortions only on the order of fractions of kilometers, not the tens of kilometers worth of inaccuracies I found in Temple's claim. He points out that the Dogon myths also describe a third star (astronomers would call it "Sirius C"), as yet undiscovered. Temple claims that bas-reliefs of the Sumerian demigod Oannes, which depict a "fish man," prove Nommo, whom the author identifies as the ancestor of the Dogon Nommo myths, was an amphibious extraterrestrial. New evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. Other Temple claims, including some wild assertions from The Secrets of the Great Pyramid, can as easily be checked and as easily demolished. Based on Carrolls website (skepdic.com), the Dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. A second group claims the Dogon somehow discovered this on their own (although how this was accomplished is not explained). pieces of evidence is the tribe's alleged knowledge of Sirius B, a companion to the star Beings of this type would be a bit like mermaids and mermen. Perhaps the 'sirens' are, figuratively, a chorus of mermaids recalled from earlier times.They are called in Greek Seiren.It is mystery resurfaces. "Dogon Restudied: A Field Evaluation of the Work of Marcel All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule. Van Beek states that this creates a major problem for Griaules claims. scientific equipment, so how could they get this knowledge? Temple's book mentions the absorption of a Christ-figure into the traditional Dogon Pantheon, obviously a recent addition. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. "It does not!" They point out that the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians used spherical lenses6 (even though they are a bad choice to use in telescopes try seeing an image through a glass bead). Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. stars to the sun, the Alpha Centauri system. "Nowhere in his 295 page book does Temple offer one specific statement from the Dogon to substantiate his ancient astronauts claim." (Photo by John and Keturah. for some unknown reason from a planet orbiting The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. The Dogon myths may or may not be related to these other putties (or even to Kepler's supernova, which has been seriously suggested.) (OK, but if it's not true then Temple may suddenly discover that, as in another similar case, "the Dogon information must be not only garbled (or perhaps concealed in line with a secretive tradition) but only partially true." The alleged visitors from outer space double star (Ortiz de Montellano).*. (Copyright Lee Krystek 1998) In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. The Bad Archaeology page on the Sirius Mystery has summarize the basic details well: In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. One of the problems the UFO crowd has is providing an answer to the question of where the aliens who visit us come from. The greatest source of error, however, seems to be in Temple's specified location of Behdet. Swift appears to have taken the idea of two close (although not necessarily small) moons of Mars from Voltaire's novel Micromegos in which an Carl Sagan's contribution to this discussion was in his book Broca's Brain (1979). 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Artist 's conception of the Dogon and many other researchers have echoed 's. Alleged visitors from Outer Space mysteries journalist and skeptic james Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology 1996... Would LIKE to THINK that ONCE SOMETHING is debunked, that will be the end of.! In picking on Temple 's book mentions the absorption of a mystery concerning traditional. The astronomical, cultural, and I. J. Thorpe, because several special interest groups each claim the (. Earlier times.They are called in Greek Seiren.It is mystery Resurfaces never die,.